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Page 27 of The Pie Thread!

General Forum

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RE: [VIDEO] The Pie Thread!

Si Wooldridge (Reviewer) posted this on Friday, 7th May 2021, 16:09

Quote:
Jitendar Canth says...
"Turkeys voting for Christmas…"



There is a real discussion to be had about what has just happened, but dismissing voter concerns because they don't think the same way as you about one party doesn't help.

I had the same problem in 1997 on the eve of the GE where Blair won an absolute landslide, no one cared (and why should they?).

The problem now is three-fold:

1.  The Labour Party will decide that voters moving right mean that they need to go further left to attract them back.
2.  The Conservative Party will think everything is fine and they don't need to change a thing.
3.  The Lib Dems - who?

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This item was edited on Friday, 7th May 2021, 16:13

RE: [VIDEO] The Pie Thread!

Jitendar Canth (Reviewer) posted this on Friday, 7th May 2021, 16:19

I didn't say anything about being duped, although I couldn't think of a trite cliche that reflects people actively seeking and colluding in a comfortable lie that confirms their biases in the face of a complete absence of opposition, that would challenge that lie with incontrovertible facts that demand to be addressed.

So I went with turkeys and christmas. It's the kind of soundbite that resonates on Twitter after all.

EDIT: And it's not just the UK, it's the entire human race.
===========================
Jitendar Canth

Quote:
"I thought what I`d do was, I`d pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes."


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This item was edited on Friday, 7th May 2021, 16:20

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RE: [VIDEO] The Pie Thread!

Si Wooldridge (Reviewer) posted this on Friday, 7th May 2021, 16:23

Quote:
Jitendar Canth says...
"I didn't say anything about being duped, although I couldn't think of a trite cliche that reflects people actively seeking and colluding in a comfortable lie that confirms their biases in the face of a complete absence of opposition, that would challenge that lie with incontrovertible facts that demand to be addressed.

So I went with turkeys and christmas. It's the kind of soundbite that resonates on Twitter after all.

EDIT: And it's not just the UK, it's the entire human race."

I agree, it wasn't a dig at you either (I just picked your quote to illustrate the point I wanted to make), but I've seen a lot of this from Labour supporters on social media today.

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Si Wooldridge
Reviewer

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RE: [VIDEO] The Pie Thread!

Robee J Shepherd (undefined) posted this on Friday, 7th May 2021, 19:46

Labour is still in deep trouble because the Corbynites refuse to see that their god led them to the worst electoral defeat in 35 years, and are attacking Starmer like he's had any real opportunity to be much of an opposition, the same people who also ran around complaining about how people were attacking Corbyn, missing the irony of that completely.

Hartlepool is interesting, basically it's a hugely Brexit area and all the votes the Tories lost to the Brexit Party went back to the Tories. Labour also lost votes, which it looks like didn't swing anywhere, they just stayed at home. If the Brexit Party hadn't split the vote in 2019 the Tories would have won it then too.

I completely agree with Jitendar's comment about Turkeys Voting for Christmas, because here is a borough suffering and yet it doesn't hold the government that has been in power for 16 years to blame. What exactly do they think is going to change?

I think the reasons are still just Brexit. Labour can't offer any true answer to that problem. If they criticise Boris' handling of things they are seen as anti-Brexit, in the same way Theresa May does terribly because she was against it, and Boris is the saviour because he campaigned loudly for it.

It will be interesting to see how voting has gone in areas which were heavily for Brexit and the Tories, but which Brexit is now hurting because of the deal.

Anyway, it's easy to say Labour has lost the support of the working people, but I don't think that actually means anything. We have a government which got into power on a Brexit manifesto, and without any other party splitting their votes, I can't see this changing much for the next few years.


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RE: [VIDEO] The Pie Thread!

Si Wooldridge (Reviewer) posted this on Friday, 7th May 2021, 20:22

I actually agree with a lot of what you say, although I'm unsurprisingly a tad more optimistic than you re. Brexit...

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Reviewer

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RE: [VIDEO] The Pie Thread!

Robee J Shepherd (undefined) posted this on Saturday, 8th May 2021, 06:56

Interestingly, the Tories just lost the council on the Isle of Wight. Before I moved here I think the island would swing between Lib Dems and Conservative, until 2001 when it voted in the most backward Tory MP you can imagine, election after election.

Before 1998 the council was pretty much always Lib Dem I think, and then went to NOC, and since 2005 has been Tory run. So that's quite a long time to be a solid blue area.

Looks like the Greens gained a seat from the Lib Dems (sorry if anybody thought this party was going to bounce back), and all of the Tory seats went to independents.

Now I have absolutely no evidence to back this up, but these are the factors I can think of that may have lost them 5 seats (including the leader of the council):

  • Council tax going up significantly every year
  • Council in debt
  • Council throwing money at big projects that failed hard
  • Most of the Brexiteers I spoke to highlighted fishing rights as a big reason (I don't think people here worry too much about immigration generally) they wanted to leave the EU, and obviously that's gone well

Who knows what the actual reasons for this are, perhaps the island's love affair with the right has waned now they got a big tick on the one thing they really wanted.

Perhaps they have realised (I suspect so has our local MP who seemed really desperate for a job as minister until Boris got in and realised he'd never get one) that Westminster doesn't care about them, and believe local independents do.

Perhaps it's just as simple as more young people reaching voting age and more old people dying. Or it could be opposition parties standing aside to not split the vote.

Whatever the reason, something here has changed, maybe not a huge change but enough to tip the balance.


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This item was edited on Saturday, 8th May 2021, 06:57

RE: [VIDEO] The Pie Thread!

Si Wooldridge (Reviewer) posted this on Saturday, 8th May 2021, 09:16

Quote:
Robee J Shepherd says...
"Interestingly, the Tories just lost the council on the Isle of Wight. Before I moved here I think the island would swing between Lib Dems and Conservative, until 2001 when it voted in the most backward Tory MP you can imagine, election after election."

The same has happened across the North, but replace the incumbent with Labour and the replacement with Conservative.

Here's something interesting considering the last year we've had:




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Reviewer

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RE: [VIDEO] The Pie Thread!

Robee J Shepherd (undefined) posted this on Saturday, 8th May 2021, 13:25

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"Here's something interesting considering the last year we've had:"

That is very shocking, considering no nurses pay rise, and everything I've heard from every person I know who works in the NHS.


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RE: [VIDEO] The Pie Thread!

Robee J Shepherd (undefined) posted this on Saturday, 8th May 2021, 13:33

It's not all doom for Labour?

Quote:
In Wales, the final results are in, with Labour matching its best performance in the Welsh Parliament ever, taking 30 seats.


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RE: [VIDEO] The Pie Thread!

Si Wooldridge (Reviewer) posted this on Saturday, 8th May 2021, 17:14

Quote:
Robee J Shepherd says...
"That is very shocking, considering no nurses pay rise, and everything I've heard from every person I know who works in the NHS."

As you've said to me before, maybe you're not in the same echo chamber as everyone else and therefore what you're hearing is not representative of the majority...

Quote:
Robee J Shepherd says...
"It's not all doom for Labour?"

Reporting of Drakeford's handling of the pandemic has been really critical (a bit like in England) but those in Wales seem to think he's done ok, so fair play to him.

The problem, of course, is that the main parties are not joined up nationally and generally felt by England to be a bit of an afterthought, so not sure how Starmer will benefit from this...

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