Page 1 of Energy crisis

Back of envelope stuff but Hinckley nuclear power station is flagged to cost around 22 billion.
Being conservative (small c) here they reckon it costs average £6,500 to install solar panels on a house. Twenty billion would put that on over three million houses. Why don't they install it for free and the power would start coming on grid from day one rather than wait years for a power station to be commissioned.
Also most homes have a now increasingly irrelevant satellite dish and or aerial. It wouldn't change the skyline much to have a single domestic wind generator as they disappear.

Failed O level physics so feel free to tell me I'm an idiot.


Snaps

You're an idiot*

I was always against nuclear power - the cost, the danger, having to store nuclear by-products for thousands of years - but I've kind of come round to them a bit more now. Modern reactors are actually very safe. Chances of another Chernobyl or Fukushima are very slim. The cost and the nuclear waste remain a problem.

The issue we have with energy production is the base load. A certain basic level of electricity that has to be continuously fed into the grid. Wind and solar power have been nothing short of revolutionary in this country especially, but because they are intermittent they can never supply the constant base load we need. Battery storage won't cut it for evening out the peaks and troughs (we'd need huge farms of extremely expensive batteries for storage and there are not enough in existence) so you are pretty much left with coal, gas, oil, 'biomass' or nuclear for our base energy production. Burning stuff is off the table so we're left with nuclear. And of course they're looking at developing multiple small reactors and fusion reactors are looking more possible.

One day we may have clever ways to store the excess wind and solar - once we all have electric 'vehicle-to-grid' cars, we could even use these to mass store power, or convert excess to green hydrogen (bit wasteful - not efficient). But even then we'd still need that 10% base load power production.

I'm not against everyone having wind and solar where possible though. I'd love to have it and it would definitely reduce our fossil fuel reliance considerably.

*Sorry, couldn't resist

I would love to have solar, but I look at the price of it how long it would take to get a return on that and cry a little.

I would also like an electric car, but for the amount I use mine it's actually more environmentally destructive to swap to one.

I'm hoping if we actually get a government with brain cells and actually cares about climate change, they will start grant schemes again for them. Then I would definitely get some!


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It’s a materials and time thing too. It’s easier to build one nuclear reactor than get all the rare earths, polymers, and other materials, and the people trained to install millions of little domestic power generators. It’s also a chance for price gouging on an epic scale. £18,000 for a heat pump, where home air conditioning is a fraction of the cost, and it’s the same technology.

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a friend who moved into his new build a while ago said it was nice seeing how much he was getting from having solar panels, but yeh, if you're having them installed you have to be young enough and "certain" you'll stay in that house "forever" :(

I think I've moaned about this before, there was an eco friendly waste disposal thing, but it was an eye sore, although i don't see how really, as you could see it as you walked down a hill, if you knew it was there, but houses didn't face it, the terraces lining the road down to it, look at each other, so it's not like anyone woke up in the morning, opened their curtains and saw a big ugly thing there, unless they opened the windows and craned their neck out to have a good look :( but ppl like a good moan, and "not on my doorstep."

like fracking, them oop north don't want that.

ppl moan that wind generators are noisy and ugly, there is one near me, and it's kind of noisy, when i walk past it, and it going full belt, but it's by a large main road, so I don't see how anyone near by can be  bothered really?

when electricity pylons were built, did ppl moan about them? I guess they did, but there wasn't the forum for anyone to know?

some people moaned about phone masts and radiation, and then more recently about covid, don't let the facts and science get in the way of a good rant :(

didn't someone here posts a video about why they haven't covered the sahara in solar panels? I'm sure I saw an interesting ted talk, or ted presentation for kids, which was interesting and explained the problems

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This item was edited on Wednesday, 20th April 2022, 13:47

NIMBYism needs to end for anything that is environmentally friendly. Down here people are moaning they will be building something onshore to support a tidal energy project.

It's not even as if the place they are going to build it looks anything more than a grassy area. This is a beautiful island with so many outstanding views... but this one isn't it!

It's also people over a certain age moaning too, well sorry, collectively you failed to stop climate change, you shouldn't get a say now.


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If energy prices stay high (and keep climbing), it might be worth checking your solar panel cost again...

For us, large house, family use, the return of investment has gone from 12+ years to 6-7 years based on April 2022 price cap elec price. Both periods are well within the 20 year lifetime of solar panels. But we plan to still be here past 6-7 years, so we would get "free" elec for a few years...

Just need the initial investment £ (Scotland's 0% loan scheme).

This item was edited on Wednesday, 20th April 2022, 18:36

Quote:
alfie noakes says...
"*Sorry, couldn't resist"
You're not the first and you wont be the last.🙂

Thanks for taking the time to explain.
I've never heard the whole base load thing anywhere else and you'd think it should be explained to the likes of me ie; interested and not entirely thick.

I do think though that if they can give grants for insulation they should re-launch them for solar panels and make them considerably more generous.

Quote:
RJS says...
"I'm hoping if we actually get a government with brain cells and actually cares about climate change, they will start grant schemes again for them."
They wont any other option if they want diesels off the road in the foreseeable future.
Well maintained they will last a lifetime. The only reason for upgrading them is more bells and whistles and better connectivity for WiFi, Bluetooth 5G etc.



Snaps

Quote:
Snaps says...
"Thanks for taking the time to explain.
I've never heard the whole base load thing anywhere else and you'd think it should be explained to the likes of me ie; interested and not entirely thick."
I'm really just repeating what I've heard the experts say. It is actually fascinating what's happening in renewable tech and infrastructure that we don't really hear about. I follow Robert Lewellyn's Fully Charged Show youtube channel and podcasts which just started as his little hobby horse and has grown into a little media empire along with the explosion in renewable tech. It's all very positive and hopeful and entertaining for us nerds!

As was stated earlier the problem with wind power, and I think the huge wind farms off shore and on land near us look amazing, was shown several years ago when we actually had the last bad winter with a good week or so of snow. The one time when people really needed power not one turbine was turning for over a week. Maybe it is a phenomena of our weather here but there was absolutely no wind over this period of time.
As for Heat Pumps, then unless you are extremely well insulated you aren't going to get benefit and as for the prices here they are astronomical. I have a friend in New Zealand and they are fitting them there at no more cost than a traditional gas Central Heating System if you want one fitting?
Her reaction to the charges here was somebody is lifting our legs with those prices.
Lifting your leg so high you can get it behind your head.
Maybe we can get New Zealand suppliers and fitters here?

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