Page 1 of The Afghanistan abandonment
Well, who didn't see this coming, honestly? The second allied troops start to leave in significant numbers the Afghan 'army' folds like a house of cards & the Taliban stroll across the country almost unchallenged as they take over town after city after town.
Now we're doubling down on the abandonment by sending some troops back just to evacuate foreign nationals, further leaving those who were formerly under our protection to their inevitable fate.
I'm at a loss as to why anyone thought leaving the country while the taliban (and thus, Daesh) were still in a position to make considerable advances was a good idea. The idiocy of Trump I get, but Johnson, and more heart-breakingly, Biden, are continuing with this lunacy and metaphorically leaving an unwanted puppy in the woods.
The people of Afghanistan were never in a position to defend themselves under their own steam. They're like nervous teenagers being handed a rifle and being pointed towards the enemy while their trainer run in the opposite direction.
I really don't get how supposedly morally advanced civilisations can, for lack of a better expression, be so heartless.
(I had considered revitalising an older thread from 2001, but after looking at some of the comments & commenters back them, though to best leave that one to die)
I'm not sure you can really blame Boris for this one.
"Although British politicians and generals, including Johnson, have said they did not want to exit at this point, Biden’s insistence and a failure by other nations to offer an alternative fighting force meant the UK and other NATO countries had to pull out."
The UK presence is useless without US support, so once Biden made up his mind and refused to reverse Trump's decision, the UK's hand was forced.
What I can blame him for specifically is the lack of will to help the interpreters who worked alongside our troops and therefore currently have a target on their backs.
The less said about my feelings on the turn of events in that country and the implications of ceding control back to the Taliban the better.
Hasn't this only ever been a matter of time.
The country just seems to absorb any occupying or assisting force and wait for them to leave.
Happened to the Russians before us and I think it's happened back in history.
Yes we should be helping the interpreters and anyone else who gave support and assistance other wise we may just as well left them with the revolver and a single round.
As a country we stand no chance of doing anything other than as support for the US. I'm not even sure we could even cope with another Falklands.
I'm quite prepared to be schooled on this. The history of it isn't my strong point and some of you have been there and done the job.
My new Flash Fiction blog. All my own work
I am not young enough to know everything.
"Happened to the Russians before us and I think it's happened back in history."
We've been there a few times.
Attempted occupations of Afghanistan never go well.
My understanding of the Trump withdrawal was that it was to be phased based on the ability of the Afghan forces to stand on their own two feet.
Biden has sped up the withdrawal and I saw him say that the 300,000 strong Afghan army would easily stand up to the 75,000 strong Taliban. Of course, this completely ignores the tribal history of the country and explains exactly how resistance just melted away once we'd withdrawn our support.
Very shortly you'll never even know we'd been there for a couple of decades, leaving all those institutions we set up and all the people we helped to just suffer under the iron fist of the Taliban...
Si Wooldridge says...
"Very shortly you'll never even know we'd been there for a couple of decades, leaving all those institutions we set up and all the people we helped to just suffer under the iron fist of the Taliban..."
This from the BBC's report, quoting Johnson on how successful our time there has been
"It is very difficult obviously, but I think the UK can be extremely proud of what has been done in Afghanistan over the last 20 years," he said.
The prime minister said that thanks to the efforts of the UK armed services there had been no al-Qaeda attacks on the West for "a very long time".
He also added that three million girls and young women in Afghanistan had been educated who otherwise would not have been, during the last 20 years.
He honestly thinks that's going to be the situation in a week? There are already reports that every female from the age of 12 is being abducted to marry Taliban soldiers. You can guarantee that any good work that may have been put in place ove the last 2 decades will be summarily destroyed once the cavemen with rocket launchers get behind the desk.
It's also laughable that anyone is dense enough to take the Taliban seriously when they deign to attend any kind of negiotating table. I don't need to bring up the concept of Taqquiya, they should know about that s***.
This item was edited on Friday, 13th August 2021, 20:35
"He honestly thinks that's going to be the situation in a week? There are already reports that every female from the age of 12 is being abducted to marry Taliban soldiers. You can guarantee that any good work that may have been put in place ove the last 2 decades will be summarily destroyed once the cavemen with rocket launchers get behind the desk."
He knows, but what else can he say other then "Biden is an idiot for pulling out and forcing us to so we avoid annihilation of UK troops in-country"?
I'd be happy for him to say this, by the way.
In the meantime we have the useful EU threat of isolating the Taliban, which is completely toothless.
We also have the unbelievable sight of the US begging the Taliban not to destroy the US embassy in Kabul while in contrast the Afghan ambassador to the US implores Biden to launch air strikes as they believe Kabul will fall in 30 days.
The official US position:
Jen Psaki suggests the Taliban need to 'an assessment about what they want their role to be in the international community.' Pretty sure they already have...
Still, Biden believes that it is not inevitable that Afghanistan will fall to the Taliban, so that's alright...
It just beggars belief that 1, anyone thinks the Taliban will keep anything closely resembling 'their word', and 2, the Afghanis are in any way equipped, physically and literally, to handle this oncoming tsunami of insular hatred.
Si Wooldridge says...
"Jen Psaki suggests the Taliban need to 'an assessment about what they want their role to be in the international community.' Pretty sure they already have...
The Taliban is entirely self-contained & sustaining. they need nothing from anyone.
Well, apart from the Russians, who seem suspisciously confident that the Taliban will be leaving them well alone, to the point they aren't evacuating ANYONE from their embassy. Funny, that.
This item was edited on Friday, 13th August 2021, 21:34
This has been an utter disaster and the first real blunder from Biden. The UK really had no choice but to pull out after the US decided to wave the white flag. I've no doubt this has gone way worse than the US had imagined and the 'no regrets' attitude from Biden is predictable guff.
The Taliban will now have full access to the millions spent on armaments and infrastructure meant to keep them out, and who knows if Afghanistan will return to the training ground it was for terrorists.
The biggest disaster is for the Afghani's of course. Expect a new wave refugees heading north towards our shores.
Crowdfunder to try and do something to help the interpreters...
Just Kabul left to fall, with the Afghan president expected to abdicate at some point today
Russia, on the other hand, has said it has no intention of evacuating its officials from Kabul.
The country’s state news agency TASS reported that the Taliban had ensured the safety of the embassy.
Funny, I could have sworn they used to be arch-enemies.