Page 68 of The Trump Presidency
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I'm sure that if Obama had encouraged violence against the media & his critics at his rallies, agreeing with a supporter who suggested that immigrants could be shot (maybe in the panhandle), contunially & habitually lied to his supporters, insisted that a foreign nation would pay for a useless wall, then leeched money from veterans' retirement funds instead, openly bragged about being in the room while a bunch of 15-year-old girls got changed, as well as cheating on his wife with a stripper/call-girl while his wife was 3 days out from giving birth to their son, then spent $300,000 paying her off, all the while still maintaining that his predecessor was born in a different continent, as well as hanging onto an outdated mantra about his previous Presidential opponent, before switching it to a new racist & xenophobic mantra about 4 current congresswomen of colour, as well as being the named inspiration for mass shootings, and while that's going on managing to triple the deficit while giving his rich buddies billion-dollar tax rebates, then yes, I'm pretty sure I would have condemned him as well.

His predecessors were criticised when deserved, Clinton was criticised for having an affair, Bush Jr was criticised for p***ing away the budget surplus created by Clinton on 2 pointless wars, killing thousands of servicemen to get back at the guy his daddy couldn't beat. Obama was criticised just for the hell of it, but mainly because he was black. But nearly every decent law Obama signed into law, was been rolled back by Trump & McConnell, just because Obama was the guy who made the law come into effect.

Trump isn't just a dick, he's a maliciously evil piece of s***, and deserves to be criticised with every living breath.

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This item was edited on Sunday, 18th August 2019, 21:39

So I expect you'll be criticising Bill Clinton and Barack Obama for deporting 17 million people between them?

I also expect you'll criticise both for their utter failure to remove rifles from the dead hands of NRA members as well as the non-NRA general public.

And I expect you'll want to criticise Obama for accepting a Nobel Peace prize for saying he'd close Guantanamo Bay and failing to achieve even that.

Not to mention criticise Obama for authorising more drone strikes in his first year than his predecessor in his entire time in office, that well known warmonger George W. Bush Jr.

I have zero problem criticising Trump for the things you mention.

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This item was edited on Monday, 19th August 2019, 06:28

So to critic Trump we have to go back and criticise every previous president as some form of balance now? That's not what balance means, nor does it justify Trump's actions in any way.

But ok, let's go...

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"So I expect you'll be criticising Bill Clinton and Barack Obama for deporting 17 million people between them?"
Obama's administration focused on deporting those convicted of serious crimes and those who recently arrived, therefore did not have roots in the US yet. Trump has rejected that focus and is just deporting everyone they can.

Obama's admin also brought in protection for children.

I'm not going to go as far back as Clinton, because that's like referencing John Major as if he has any relevance to today's government.

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"I also expect you'll criticise both for their utter failure to remove rifles from the dead hands of NRA members as well as the non-NRA general public."
That one is easy, Republicans controlled the house and the senate, they tried to introduce a bill after one (of many) massacres but it never got far. He wanted to do it, but the system prevented him from doing anything.

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"And I expect you'll want to criticise Obama for accepting a Nobel Peace prize for saying he'd close Guantanamo Bay and failing to achieve even that."
He did not get it for that promise, I'm not sure where you read that.

He did say he'd close it and I am definitely angry he never did. That is a big stain on his time in office.

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"Not to mention criticise Obama for authorising more drone strikes in his first year than his predecessor in his entire time in office, that well known warmonger George W. Bush Jr."
Consider me critisising him for it now, if I haven't done so before. I found him a very dissappointing president, because he promised so much and delivered so little. He did however do some good things, and he did try to represent all of the people and not divide them.

Are we ok now to go back to critising the current president in a thread about the current president now? Or do I need to reference how Clinton lied about having sex with one of his staff?


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Ooh, I'll have a go... George Bush Sr, "No more taxes"  here, have some taxes. Reagan, Iran Contra, random invasions of teeny tiny Caribbean Island to keep the military in practice, possible mental decline in his second term (fair enough, Brezhnev was dead for his last two years in office). and Jimmy Carter... didn't give peanuts to to US citizens...? Gerald Ford... went to a strip club in Beverly Hills Cop 2? What did Nixon do again?

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Quote:
Robee J Shepherd says...
"Republicans controlled the house and the senate, they tried to introduce a bill after one (of many) massacres but it never got far. He wanted to do it, but the system prevented him from doing anything."
A bi-partisan gun control bill has been sitting on McConnell's desk for months now, but all the money he receives from the NRA is getting in the way of him signing it.


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Quote:
Robee J Shepherd says...
"So to critic Trump we have to go back and criticise every previous president as some form of balance now? That's not what balance means, nor does it justify Trump's actions in any way."
Nope, I'm not interested in balance, just consistency.

If you didn't condemn/criticise Obama or Clinton for the SAME things you find abhorrent in Trump's actions now, then it's a tad late.

Quote:
Robee J Shepherd says...
"I'm not going to go as far back as Clinton, because that's like referencing John Major as if he has any relevance to today's government."
Not strictly true though as Major has strongly condemned the use of proroguing Parliament despite being the last PM to do it...

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This item was edited on Monday, 19th August 2019, 15:36

Quote:
Pete-MK says...
"A bi-partisan gun control bill has been sitting on McConnell's desk for months now, but all the money he receives from the NRA is getting in the way of him signing it."
You and I both know it's never going to happen, the ownership of guns is too ingrained within US culture to do anything about it now, no matter how much we feel it should...

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Si Wooldridge
Reviewer

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Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"You and I both know it's never going to happen"
Sadly true. You only have to look at the publicly available record of NRA donations to prominent congressmen on both sides of the line to understand why their personal wealth means more to them than dead schoolkids, and it's nothing to do with upholding a laughably outdated amendment.


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This item was edited on Monday, 19th August 2019, 17:54

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"If you didn't condemn/criticise Obama or Clinton for the SAME things you find abhorrent in Trump's actions now, then it's a tad late."
Wondering which of the things I'm criticising Trump for that Obama did.

Did I miss Obama saying one thing on public record and then denying he ever said them, despite video evidence? Attempting to undermine trust in any media that questions him? Being openly racist about elected members of congress? Inciting hatred? Promoting guns? Attacking the rights of LGBTQ+ communities? Misogyny? Wanting to get rid of affordable health care for the poor? Snuggling up to Putin? Supported Israel in growing its settlements in the West Bank?

The argument that Trump is remotely in anyway being singled out because Obama or Clinton was just as bad, makes no sense. To say you can't critic Trump because nobody is perfect is ludicrous.

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"Nope, I'm not interested in balance, just consistency."
So just because there is no huge thread on this forum about Obama (in fact we haven't really discussed him politically much at all looking back) in which we've all pulled up every thing he failed to do or did wrong, we should not critic Trump?

You didn't do it either on here? Why the double standard? Doesn't seem very fair?


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Quote:
Robee J Shepherd says...
"So just because there is no huge thread on this forum about Obama (in fact we haven't really discussed him politically much at all looking back) in which we've all pulled up every thing he failed to do or did wrong, we should not critic Trump?

You didn't do it either on here?"
We can play this game all day.  I'm not suggesting there has to be a similar thread on here or even postings on here.  All I'm saying is that everyone needs to stop looking at politics through rose tinted partisan glasses, you either get that or you don't.   You don't have to have posted on here, but it's clear from the tone of criticism levelled at Trump that no one has thought about it otherwise some of the criticism would be more tempered.

I get, for example, that people want to have a crack at Trump for detaining and deporting illegal immigrants.  There just needs, in my view, to be some context put around that in that he was nowhere near the first President to do that and he won't be the last.  The state of detention facilities is almost certainly something that didn't start with Trump either.  Context, means all.

I was pretty pleased that Obama won the Presidency after Bush Jr, although I would have been happier at that point if Clinton has won instead as I always thought that the US as a whole might take to a female President more than a black one.  At this point, I'm not sure that would have been the case as US politics is too entrenched - a bit like the Labour Party who talk a good talk on female leaders but never seem to get around to electing one (but that's a different point).

I won't defend his behaviour, I've mentioned more than once that I don't like him as a person very much, I just get so sick of the endless whinging about whatever he's said today - and I don't think whinging is too strong a word either.  No one seems to get that he doesn't give a f*** about that and in fact lives for it.  All you do is just make yourselves more and more angry, ramp up the criticism and strengthen his base - who will return him in 2020, possibly with an even higher vote.

I realise that I'm the forum version of Canute at the moment, but hey, if that's my role then that's my role...

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Si Wooldridge
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