Page 109 of The Trump Presidency

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RE: [VIDEO] The Trump Presidency

Si Wooldridge (Reviewer) posted this on Thursday, 10th September 2020, 11:03

Quote:
Robee J Shepherd says...
"This might be that incredibly rare time I think Si has a point, but I think Si has a point."

Even a stopped analogue clock is right twice a day.

No offence taken, btw... 

I think I'm still being confused for a Trump supporter, which I'm not - just a supporter of democracy. 

Most of you may have forgotten, but I was originally a supporter of Obama (although prior to him getting the ticket, I was more in line with Hillary).  He was talking about closing Gitmo and I had real hope that he might instigate fundamental change.

Turned out he was just like everyone before him...and the blatant virtue signalling of this award was one of the first signs that no one else was that bothered about real change...

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This item was edited on Thursday, 10th September 2020, 11:05

RE: [VIDEO] The Trump Presidency

Snaps (Elite) posted this on Thursday, 10th September 2020, 12:33

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"He was talking about closing Gitmo and I had real hope that he might instigate fundamental change."

Don't I recall that he had every intention and even made a start at closing it but circumstance and info he wasn't privy to until sworn in made that impossible?


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RE: [VIDEO] The Trump Presidency

alfie noakes (Elite) posted this on Thursday, 10th September 2020, 13:02

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"I think I'm still being confused for a Trump supporter, which I'm not - just a supporter of democracy. "

Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump.

RE: [VIDEO] The Trump Presidency

Robee J Shepherd (undefined) posted this on Thursday, 10th September 2020, 13:35

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"Turned out he was just like everyone before him..."

I would disagree there, the Republicans held the house and the senate, which basically made it very difficult for him to do anything. When you don't hold both of those, you have two options, either compromise (he got some form of healthcare reform through) or do a Trump.

He also boosted US relations with the rest of the world, and implemented a number of programs which Trump has since decided to do his best to tear down.

He wasn't the hero world changing president we hoped for, but I'm not sure how much of that was our expectations or not.

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"just a supporter of democracy"

If only there was one true definition of democracy.


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RE: [VIDEO] The Trump Presidency

Si Wooldridge (Reviewer) posted this on Thursday, 10th September 2020, 14:34

Quote:
alfie noakes says...
"Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump."

In terms of popular votes, that is true.  The US version of democracy includes the electoral college though, so overall Trump won...whether you, I or every left leaning person in the USA like it or not...

There is a reason that Alexander Hamilton and James Maddison proposed the creation of the electoral college in 1787.  I'll be honest though, I have no idea how many Presidents lost the popular vote but won the electoral college vote (or vice versa).

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Reviewer

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RE: [VIDEO] The Trump Presidency

alfie noakes (Elite) posted this on Thursday, 10th September 2020, 15:18

It's an odd version of democracy.

Without looking it up, I believe it's been many years (decades?) since a Republican actually won the popular vote whilst also winning the presidency.

I understand why they have the electoral college system. It was supposedly to balance out the power to the mid-states so they wouldn't always be over-ruled by the larger population coastal states. I wonder if it's still fit for purpose now though? It inevitably leads to a handful of swing states that everyone fights over.

Not a great deal better in the UK though. I learnt the other day that the only other 'European' country that still has FPTP is Belarus!

Edit: according to wikipedia, Bush Jr. and Trump were last 2 presidents to lose popular vote but win presidency. You have to go back to 1800s to find previous examples.

This item was edited on Thursday, 10th September 2020, 15:27

RE: [VIDEO] The Trump Presidency

Si Wooldridge (Reviewer) posted this on Thursday, 10th September 2020, 15:41

Quote:
alfie noakes says...
"It's an odd version of democracy."

Just because it ain't ours, don't knock it...no one has thought to change it as yet...

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Si Wooldridge
Reviewer

http://synth.myreviewer.com

RE: [VIDEO] The Trump Presidency

Robee J Shepherd (undefined) posted this on Thursday, 10th September 2020, 15:53

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"Just because it ain't ours, don't knock it...no one has thought to change it as yet..."

I'm not sure ours is any better. If anything we have a wider selection which under proportional representation would mean more seats for smaller parties, but under the current system means our votes don't count.

I would disagree that no-one has thought to change both our systems, but turkeys don't vote for Christmas and both our systems favour two parties each.


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RE: [VIDEO] The Trump Presidency

Si Wooldridge (Reviewer) posted this on Thursday, 10th September 2020, 18:42

Quote:
Robee J Shepherd says...
"I would disagree that no-one has thought to change both our systems, but turkeys don't vote for Christmas and both our systems favour two parties each."

You can say that about our system as we had a referendum, what practical steps has anyone taken in the US?


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Si Wooldridge
Reviewer

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RE: [VIDEO] The Trump Presidency

Robee J Shepherd (undefined) posted this on Thursday, 10th September 2020, 21:25

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"You can say that about our system as we had a referendum"

Hah, that referendum was designed to fail, by not being proportional representation. We haven't had a referendum on proportional representation at all.

Now I think what we did have one on was better than what we have now, but complicated to describe to average person so it would never have passed a vote.

The ONLY reason we even got that was because of the coalition government. The US can't have a hung presidency afaik.

Quote:
Si Wooldridge says...
"what practical steps has anyone taken in the US?"

Are you not able to do your own googling? :p Also whether I know this or not has no affect on whether it exists. But maybe there is some kind of fair vote org-anisation.


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